View Full Version : Specs appeal
I acepted this appeal because everyone deserves a chance to appeal and because he's suspended he asked me to do this.
Specs appeal:
Okay. I explain my thoughts, chronological.
1. I see Asa's birthday thread, and am surprised that the date doesnt show up in the list. However, i wish a happy birthday.
2. I saw someone posting happy birthday in japanese. I had a lot of trouble because of other languages and saw people complaining about it at many different points. But it was the brithday so i didnt want to post anything about that right now.
3. Later - don't know when exactly, but it was in the next day or very late in the night - I thought that the birthday was now over and i could post "Since when is speaking a different language allowed" (or something along these lines), because i would have congratulated her in german too if i was allowed and was surprised that noone reacted on it.
4. I check back to the thread. I see one person explaining why it was okay not to speak english it in this case and DeKA saying that my post was completely out of place. I was really surprised about that and i was angry too, seing that i was in trouble because of not speaking english and now its suddently okay. I didnt read the following posts.
5. I wrote a PM to complain about how i felt that the rules were enforced a bit random and exchanged more PM's with DeKA. I was upset and said that I felt like the rules were enforced against me harder than they should have been. I did not disrespect DeKA as a person, i was just angry and felt treated unfair.
6. I thought Asa would think like that too. I thought she wouldnt really care about that one post i made. So i wrote her a PM about how "extremely sorry" i am, which was sarcastic. What i was meaning was "i find it pointless that my post was considered offensive, and i'm sure you dont think so". Okay - i was wrong, Asakura seemed indeed angry about my post. I was - and am - extremely surprised about that. Her response seemed to be just as sarcastic as my post. She said that I said sorry way too late.
Sorry for what? For posting the rules? Okay, might have been a bit unfriendly, but i wasnt aware of the fact that someone really could have been offended by something like that, and i still am.
So - Asakura, if you really were angry about that, I dont understand it, and i thought you would think completely different than that. If I would have known that you are really offended by something like that i wouldnt have wrote a sarcastic PM. Sorry - and this time i mean it.
DeKA, i've nothing against you. I was just surprised how suddently the rule wasnt enforced but on the other side me repeating the rule was considered a crime or something...
Wes, i have nothing against you either, but you seem to have something against me. Please tell me what i do wrong so i can work on it.
Please understand that i didnt mean to harm anyone, didnt seek for trouble or arguments.
I find the timed ban and removal of VIP status is an overreaction.
Do you punish me for saying that I found the rule being used unfair? In this case I dont know how the punishment is justified.
Do you punish me for being sarcastic in my posts? In this case i didnt think that anyone would have been offended by it.
Do you punish me for the PM i sent to Asakura? I thought she wouldnt have been offended at all, so i thought this PM would also not mean anything. I seemed to be wrong, but it wasnt intended by me to offend her, and I did not realize me "turning into a completely different person"... I'm confused, I dont know what i did to deserve the punishment.
Ya'll seem to have a problem with me, and i dont know what it is. Please lets talk about it instead of punishing me for something i dont realize that its wrong, that will not help anyone.
Tell me what i should do to be like i used to be, if i really changed.
what the... whats gone on? ive read all that and im still clueless... theres a post involved and Asa's bday... :s
It was a fuss made over nothing as per usual for most issues at the clan.
Spec was suspended for not respecting authority and causing upset in the community. Sounds harsh but in the past there were similar occasions and infractions were issued. Suspension was the next procedure to follow.
oh right oki ill leave it at that then...
Okay. I explain my thoughts, chronological.
1. I see Asa's birthday thread, and am surprised that the date doesnt show up in the list. However, i wish a happy birthday.
It did show up.
2. I saw someone posting happy birthday in japanese. I had a lot of trouble because of other languages and saw people complaining about it at many different points. But it was the brithday so i didnt want to post anything about that right now.
Good thought.
3. Later - don't know when exactly, but it was in the next day or very late in the night - I thought that the birthday was now over and i could post "Since when is speaking a different language allowed" (or something along these lines), because i would have congratulated her in german too if i was allowed and was surprised that noone reacted on it.
1. it's still a birthday tread
2. your no mod, so pelase don't make comments about it in the tread, our mods ca ndo the job therself if they see something, if you see something that needs modding, pm it to one of the mods responcilbe for the forum, senior/leaders, but don't go posting mod commets everywhere, for us that is also a spam comment.
4. I check back to the thread. I see one person explaining why it was okay not to speak english it in this case and DeKA saying that my post was completely out of place. I was really surprised about that and i was angry too, seing that i was in trouble because of not speaking english and now its suddently okay. I didnt read the following posts.
we never said it's k to start not talking english.
5. I wrote a PM to complain about how i felt that the rules were enforced a bit random and exchanged more PM's with DeKA. I was upset and said that I felt like the rules were enforced against me harder than they should have been. I did not disrespect DeKA as a person, i was just angry and felt treated unfair.
If one of the seniors say a post to you, it is not your right to pm and complain about it to the person themself, if you wanna complain send it too the leaders, never go against a person yourself.
6. I thought Asa would think like that too. I thought she wouldnt really care about that one post i made. So i wrote her a PM about how "extremely sorry" i am, which was sarcastic. What i was meaning was "i find it pointless that my post was considered offensive, and i'm sure you dont think so". Okay - i was wrong, Asakura seemed indeed angry about my post. I was - and am - extremely surprised about that. Her response seemed to be just as sarcastic as my post. She said that I said sorry way too late.
Sorry for what? For posting the rules? Okay, might have been a bit unfriendly, but i wasnt aware of the fact that someone really could have been offended by something like that, and i still am.
it's nothing funny saying something like that in a birthday tread, especialy nit answering sarcastic way.
So - Asakura, if you really were angry about that, I dont understand it, and i thought you would think completely different than that. If I would have known that you are really offended by something like that i wouldnt have wrote a sarcastic PM. Sorry - and this time i mean it.
not for me to comment
DeKA, i've nothing against you. I was just surprised how suddently the rule wasnt enforced but on the other side me repeating the rule was considered a crime or something...
Nor for me to comment
Wes, i have nothing against you either, but you seem to have something against me. Please tell me what i do wrong so i can work on it.
i have nothing against you yourself, it's just the way you do:
1. Your always first one to start a fight
2. Your always mouthing someone off.
3. you complain about every little thing.
4. ...
Please understand that i didnt mean to harm anyone, didnt seek for trouble or arguments.
Your doing the whole time
I find the timed ban and removal of VIP status is an overreaction.
Do you punish me for saying that I found the rule being used unfair? In this case I dont know how the punishment is justified.
The punishment was just right, lucky for me i wasn't there in the time you used admin, i would have voted for a lifetime ban at that spot.
Do you punish me for being sarcastic in my posts? In this case i didnt think that anyone would have been offended by it.
Not for that
Do you punish me for the PM i sent to Asakura? I thought she wouldnt have been offended at all, so i thought this PM would also not mean anything. I seemed to be wrong, but it wasnt intended by me to offend her, and I did not realize me "turning into a completely different person"... I'm confused, I dont know what i did to deserve the punishment.
already said why
Ya'll seem to have a problem with me, and i dont know what it is. Please lets talk about it instead of punishing me for something i dont realize that its wrong, that will not help anyone.
Tell me what i should do to be like i used to be, if i really changed.
after the complaints we got, where i also had some problems with you i actually find the punoshment just right, remember you already got a lifetime ban if you where a stranger to us.
saying in happy birthday in japanese or speaking a dif language is a completly diferent thing, they only said happy bday, there was nothing else, you where infractions in time for speaking ful german in shoutbox after already being warned, also remember this (http://www.sog-team.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2879), like it said there we won't mod so much anymore only if the word is really disrespective.
What happend to the days when we all used to have fun games and none of ths crap was held in the spotlight, besides like wes said mods are mods and have strict jobs to complete. hence the forums rules have always been the
same and dnt change whoevers birthday it
is, it doesnt make a difference. appologise, enough said move on and have fun. :-l
So has it been overturned? Or are we suppose to say if we want it overturned or not?
Well, I'm not sure if I agree with this decision now that I read that part of the thread, yes I know we have had issues in the past with Spec, however, I think he was a bit justified in the fact that he was trying to point out that 2 different ppl used non-english in the forums, to me that's not acceptable as per our rules, no matter which topic/sections it's in, and don't think they should just get a free pass, as he got suspended for just saying that he was wondering why it was ok?
I know I'm not perfect, as sometimes I'm fast too judge with everyone else on a certain topic, but I try to examine all the evidence of the issue at hand before making a decision. Maybe it wasn't "His Part" to speak up about non-english being said, but maybe someone needed too. I know I failed that part.
I'm not on anyone's side, just trying to point out what I see.
...and DeKA saying that my post was completely out of place. I was really surprised about that and i was angry too, seing that i was in trouble because of not speaking english and now its suddently okay. I didnt read the following posts.
Your post was absolutely off the mark and that's why you were asked to not post your "mod's" comments.
Unluckily I didnt saw it earlier, cause it should be moderated before causing the fuss.
I repeat again: any birthday thread is NOT the place for comments like that - especially comments about other people bd's wishes.
5. I wrote a PM to complain about how i felt that the rules were enforced a bit random and exchanged more PM's with DeKA. I was upset and said that I felt like the rules were enforced against me harder than they should have been. I did not disrespect DeKA as a person, i was just angry and felt treated unfair.
I told you that i have no knowledge about your earlier infractions and I'm telling you now: if you got infraction in the past its not the reason to ruining someone bd thread or acting like only one poor and injured.
Also forcing infractions or moderation on other forum members posts as a "revenge" and fulfillment for your retribution from the past is a very bad manner and cannot be accepted.
Let me tell you something: concentrating on yourself you did forget about interpersonal relations and other people feelings. You did forget not all world is about you and you are not one and only - you have to respect others like yourself
To make it clear: if someone else will post something like you did I do react in the same way - it wasnt in any way against you.
It was to keep relations here on forum in good condition.
And as Wes said: for moderating are Mods and if you find any post as a rules' violation there is a way to inform right people.
DeKA, i've nothing against you. I was just surprised how suddently the rule wasnt enforced but on the other side me repeating the rule was considered a crime or something...
I have nothing against you too but i have to quote Wes:
i have nothing against you yourself, it's just the way you do:
1. Your always first one to start a fight
2. Your always mouthing someone off.
3. you complain about every little thing.
4. ...
Your doing the whole time
Remember: speech is silver but silence is golden.
This sentence is worth of being applied in every field of our life.
So has it been overturned? Or are we suppose to say if we want it overturned or not?
Nope he stays suspended to 30th with withdrawal from vip at this moment
Well, I'm not sure if I agree with this decision now that I read that part of the thread, yes I know we have had issues in the past with Spec, however, I think he was a bit justified in the fact that he was trying to point out that 2 different ppl used non-english in the forums, to me that's not acceptable as per our rules, no matter which topic/sections it's in, and don't think they should just get a free pass, as he got suspended for just saying that he was wondering why it was ok?
Like i already said there's a big diference with saying happy bday in japanese has the translation is already there, then speaking full german in the shoutbox, btw there was said we'l cut on moderation as you see in the tread i posted, guess i do know he was one of the complainers about being moderated.
I know I'm not perfect, as sometimes I'm fast too judge with everyone else on a certain topic, but I try to examine all the evidence of the issue at hand before making a decision. Maybe it wasn't "His Part" to speak up about non-english being said, but maybe someone needed too. I know I failed that part.
I'm not on anyone's side, just trying to point out what I see.
You only see what happened here i don't think you were there yet when he got the infraction, if someone needed to point out about non-english it's not him, there are moderators enough that do there job perfectly fine.
True, well sry, I of course didn't see that, was just commenting on what I saw at the time.
Nothing to be sry about ;)
True, well sry, I of course didn't see that, was just commenting on what I saw at the time.
lol tc, i somtimes only read what i want to, too. :p
Nicoleise
17-06-08, 04:14 PM
I guess I should answer this...
My post was the second one with two japaneese words in it. I realize that's not really allowed, however, I also don't think the rules about non-english are to be taken that strictly. Here's why ;
To me, it's a polite and personal way to talk to people, that you show some level of interest in what they're saying. Now, as we pretty much all know, Asakura is from Japan. I went on google, and searched "Happy birthday" in japaneese, and got a page with Happy Birthday in 126 languages, that I by the way bookmarked as well.
I used the sentence - well, two words - as a way of giving Asakura a more personal wish of a happy birthday, and I had never in my wildest dreams imagined how something like that could offend people. Had I not clearly showed what I was saying, I would understand, but I don't think anyone reading my post could ever think of anything but "happy birthday" in between the quotes. Like I said before, I think it's a polite thing to do, it's considered so here anyhow - and I'd be honoured if somebody not speaking danish would take the time to say "happy birthday" to me, in danish. Besides, I've seen it practiced before on this forum anyways.
Hence, I was heavily disappointed in Specs post to be honest. I've never done anything but good for him, at least not how I see it. I've helped him for countless hours, and I've always tried to advice him to do what's best for him - advice that would have kept him in SOG today as well. I'm not feeling bitter here, and I'm not mad, as Spec has also been a friend and returned that favor to me.
So seeing that post was really weird to me, and I must admit I took it personal. I was so disappointed, that it had to be an issue, that I greeted Asakura in a personal way, and that he could not see beyond that. So I posted a very sarcastic reply, but still realizing that letter-to-letter I did break the posting rules, which I'm obviously not supposed to, I also said sorry, and I edited my post.
===
@ Deka - I didn't edit specs post for two simple reasons ; I didn't want to and saw no point it in, and only admins may edit posts as they please - mods may only edit posts that shows a rule violation. It was moreso the first reason though. Everybody is entitled to their say.
===
One thing I find odd though, is that I'm not mentioned once in this. I don't mean to "miss some spotlight" but after all, it was me, and my post that he was correcting. Yet, to be honest - I couldn't care less.
I'm hugely disappointed at Asakuras birthday thread had to be turned into what it was, and as far as I see it, only for Spec to hold a grudge against whoever for him being corrected for breaking the same rule once, but in a completely different way and extend. I feel sorry for Asakura, as I know she was also very mad about this. She told me, I shouldn't have to edit my post, as on the contrary she appreciated the greeting.
I stand by whatever I posted. I'm sorry if greeting someone in a personal manner can really offend people, and I assure you, it will never, if the lifespan of this forum happen again. I've deleted the page from my bookmark, and the next time I see a birthday thread, I'll try and blend into the countless "*thewave happy b-day *thewave*" threads, so that I don't violate any rules in an attempt to be nice to people.
I'm obliviant as to why everything has to be such a huge fuss though - the pro server being gone, Ghost stating something in the OT thread, and now two words of japaneese that carried no harmfull meaning what so ever. However, I must admit it bores me, as well as I know it bores countless others.
So if I should add anything to the "tell me what I'm doing wrong" aspect of the original post ; Well ask. Rather than saying you disagree, try asking first, why stuff happened. And if you disagree, take it up with someone who can actually do something about it, rather than e.g. complaining in the shoutbox for hours, or similar. If you really want to object to the treatment you're given, don't ask the bystanders, ask somebody who can answer your questions and change stuff.
Now, don't kill me please - everything above is my personal view only. Feel free to discuss them with me IN PRIVATE, but let's not have any more cluttering up the forum with arguing - please. :)
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