View Full Version : How was the universe created?
Hi everyone,
After seeing Nicoleise's thread on the evolution of humans, I wanted to throw this subject into the mix also. I am very interested in this subject and often indulge myself in documentaries featuring this subject.
There a a few theories how the universe was created. Some religious, some scientific and some both.
This is a fairly open question, so what are your views & beliefs on the creation of the universe in regards to life, planets, stars & life beyond earth & the milky way?
Share your theories & personal views and try include reference as to why.
Matt
I read a paper a while back about the possibility that two universes collided and caused the big bang. This paper articulated it a bit better then that, but that's the gist of it. I did a search to try and find it again, but to no avail. *ponders* I should have bookmarked it of course.
It sounded like a good idea in my mind that such an event could have taken place to spawn the big poof. *chuckles* And it's in the position to explain something about what went on before the big bang it-self.
If my memory serves me correct it also had great tie-ins to string theory, which only strengthens the idea for me.
One of the pluses of a possible explanation of pre-big-bang stuff is for all those who off the bat says; But what started the big bang? In my mind, something that we can't explain now doesn't necessarily dispute the fact that it could still be true or correct, which a lot of people state in both this case and others.
I believe science and our pursuit of knowledge will one day work out a proven theory of our universes dawn and what caused it.
I know that me saying something not understood can still be true and correct can be viewed as giving religious views on the creation of the universe a boost, but that's not the case. Religious doctrine has never explained anything about... anything actually, other than; God did it, which to me is just as valid as stating that aliens started everything.
While I'm talking about aliens, I might as well throw it out there that I do believe them to exist, even intelligent ones. A lot of people, and even some scientists, claim they can't exist due to the fact that they haven't visited us yet, which to me is a bogus statement.
First of, they might be here. There are a lot of ways to hide among a crowd so they could be gathering information by interacting with us already. I'm still holding a finger on the idea that President Bush was a social experiment by some aliens to see what we would tolerate :P *laughs*
Second, they might exist and are out there watching us now. Like the Federation of Star Trek, they might have rules about interfering with a less advanced species, or they might find us boring, or won't contact us for any number of reasons... They might even be watching us to find our weakest point to kill us of. Who knows...
And third, and the most likely one imho, is that they exist, but haven't gotten around to our part of the galaxy/universe yet. They might not be technologically advanced enough to travel great distances in space, or they are and just haven't reached here yet, and maybe never will.
We, as a species, have come close to annihilation a few times, but from us selves and from nature, so it stands to reason that other alien species might have existed and gone extinct too. Or might be starting their space-travel right now and something happens and they go extinct before we catch up to them.
My point is this; There are a few million reasons why we have not made first contact (publicly) with an alien species yet.
tl:dr
I believe universal-collision made the big bang and aliens exist :P
Hidroncs
30-04-10, 01:04 PM
In my opinion, the best answer on that question is already sing by Yakko :)
f_J5rBxeTIk
There are sizes, and numbers out there what we are NOT ABLE to understand anytime. I like to be a lucky one, who live and can think about things like this, but we never can be sure about it, and its very well like that :).
So we can live:
- "maybe just inside a little jar"
- or at the Matrix.
Most important that we live, and think. (or we feel like that :) ).
there's actually been a rather interesting theory called "The Simulation Hypothesis" which i truly believe in, i'll break it down:
Over the years our computers have become stronger, and simulations (cimcity4, the sims3, etc.) have being more realistic and realistic... at a certain point, we'll be able to simulate whole worlds...
at this point, the question arises: Are WE a simulation? i mean, we've proven it's possible...
HOWEVER, untill we reach that point of simulation capailities, i think it was "KABOOM!" hi world. just like they teach us in school.
CAD25s53wmE
Cosmic Quandaries with Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson
He talks about a lot of subjects, but jumps in on origin a few times and towards the end he gives an interesting little speech about intelligent life. A worthy watch on cosmology. Tyson is pretty awesome and quite skilled as a speaker, in my opinion anyways.
at a certain point, we'll be able to simulate whole worlds...
at this point, the question arises: Are WE a simulation?
That's like Star Ocean 3 scenario man, hehehe. Great rpg.
And sure it is an option, why not.
Nicoleise
01-05-10, 06:30 PM
I personally don't believe the simulation scheme. We haven't been able to build even one artificial intelligence. Sure we call alot of things A.I., but they react based on a set of instructions, not from learning.
The way we learn as humans, e.g. what things are called, is often using the tiring method of exhausting all other options. E.g. if we look at 200 objects, whereof 1 is unknown to us, we can learn the name of the unknown object simply by eliminating all the choices we already know. A handfull of dogs have also demonstrated these skills. A computer however, isn't capable of learning this way, and thus it cannot relate to entirely unforseeable circumstances. Because it isn't smart enough.
Now, that's only one A.I.. Imagine how many we have on Earth? Sure, we have some 6 billion people, but then there's animals, insects, etc. All with varying degress of intelligence but still with some intelligence.
After the intelligence issue there's then the billions and billions of interactions and relations we commit to every single day. I simply don't believe that any machine could even remotely simulate all these factors - and even if, I don't see the point when such a machine could have so much more plausible missions, like mapping the universe, curing deceases, contemplating science and developments, etc.
Computer games can do this because it only relates to a handfull of information (e.g. just around the player), for instance Sim City, that you use as an example has moving traffic - but the traffic aint going no where, it's not intelligent in any way and it is only appearing just where the player is looking. Grand Theft Auto 4, which has quite an impressive AI system is still stupid. Sure, other road users react to you, swirve to avoid a collision, etc, but they only do this when you drive infront of them. Real human drivers use so much anticipation when driving. The human brain is still way ahead of any computer we have, when we count in all the inputs it's processing, and yet, we can't drive a car and do another task without loosing focus, so I simply don't see the logic in a PC controlling all of us.
I also heard the parallel universe theory before (in like 2003), and how it states that black holes may be crossings between these two, however, this scenario in my opinion doesn't answer much. Now we have to think about how two universes started before our own, etc. There are also some holes in this theory, however it is well possible.
In my opinion, the most likely theory is two particles colliding, as we know this can produce huge amounts of energy (even on Earth). It would also in my opinion do well to explain why the universe consists mainly of nothing. In my opinion, a particle implosion would mean that all these tiny fractures of particles would spread out in opposing directions, and each of these tiny fractures might be the start of a galaxy.
It would also fare well to explain another theory, being that the universe isn't flat, but curved, and that there even may be passages (possibly black holes) linking as shortcuts. This in my opinion would make sense, since these particles, unless hitting each other with impossible accuracy right at their center line, would split in opposing, curved direction.
So as it may be evident, I'm more for the traditional theory myself.
As for being alone in space ; supposing it all started with this theory, I would find it unlikely that we are the only lifeform to evolve from these two particles coliding. In theory, the excact same circumstances should easily occur elsewhere.
However, I do think we are the only human-like species out there. We may have remote relations, which may be to small to even see, and have no intelligence, or we may have highly evolved counterparts somewhere. It's my honest hope that we never find out, especially if it's the latter. The universe should be big enough for all of us, and it's still expanding and stretching making distances even greater. But if we were to be reached by an alien society, in my opinion they would have to be very technologically advanced to make it here, knowing propulsion systems that are utopia to us. I highly doubt they would see any purpose for us humans. They could harvest us, they could use our planet, they could do so many things that we can't even think of, but in my opinion, the least plausible scenario is that they would embrace us, and share their technology, as some think.
I dont mean to end on such a depressed note, but in my opinion the human species will die at the very latest when our Sun ceases to exist. I don't see the likelyness in us reaching a habitable enviroment far enough away from the Sun, as even with the speed of light it would take several thousand years to go from star to star untill we find something that looks right, and then it's pretty much still up to a test if it's habitable, etc.
Those are my 0.02$ about the greater things in life. :p Fortunately, I can just take comfort in knowing that if Earth and humans last my lifetime and some few hundred more years, I'll be happy. And as I definately dont believe the poor mathematical judgement day prophecy of 2012, I should think I have some years to go :D
Open up your mind a bit more.
I personally don't believe the simulation scheme. We haven't been able to build even one artificial intelligence.[...] After the intelligence issue there's then the billions and billions of interactions and relations we commit to every single day. I simply don't believe that any machine could even remotely simulate all these factors - and even if, I don't see the point when such a machine could have so much more plausible missions, like mapping the universe, curing deceases, contemplating science and developments, etc.
What of it? It all describes your point of view as human, here right now, so it's kinda like every other alien is less or our level advanced. We don't know what's out there, I'm not a fan of simulation theory, but I think it could be possible. Not like proper simulation, that an alien presses X and Nico goes for a ride, but more like a seeing into it all.
Some people can't imagine how much an alien (if there is any) may be advanced comparing to us, it's like explaining to someone who was born blind, what's the color like. People rolling stones thousends of years ago thought of what we have today? I guess they didn't. How do we, imagine life in some thousends years forward? With addition of technology that goes faster and faster. Not mentioning a lot lot lot years more, somewhere out there in the universe.
Some people can't imagine how much an alien (if there is any) may be advanced comparing to us, it's like explaining to someone who was born blind, what's the color like. People rolling stones thousends of years ago thought of what we have today? I guess they didn't. How do we, imagine life in some thousends years forward? With addition of technology that goes faster and faster. Not mentioning a lot lot lot years more, somewhere out there in the universe.
That's true. The difference between ourselves and out closest relatives, the chimp, is just about 1% difference in DNA. That percent makes us able to create art, compose music, write stories, create and use complex arithmetic, create the Hubble telescope, invent plastic, create a metallic box that flies through the air with propelled locomotion.
Now, imagine an alien species with another percent difference in DNA in the same direction....
Their 3 year olds would probably do quantum mechanics with crayons. Tyson talks about this during the end of the video I posted up there. These aliens would be so incredibly advanced compared to us, like we are to the chimps. It's quite mindboggeling to think about, for me anyway.
So no, there is nothing, anywhere, stating that an alien species has to even be close to out level of intelligence.
I think that Earth is a huge mental hospital and we're separated from real inteligence. Seriously, how is it possible that the most intelligent race on earth is so stupid? And the whole universe is a giant... nothing. Just some empty space, meteorites flying around, empty space, large planets, stars, black holes and may be a empty space somewhere, which have been made from big exploding sandwich.
<I will donate everyone who wants to find these pieces of this sandwich in universe>
KM™
That's true. The difference between ourselves and out closest relatives, the chimp, is just about 1% difference in DNA. That percent makes us able to create art, compose music, write stories, create and use complex arithmetic, create the Hubble telescope, invent plastic, create a metallic box that flies through the air with propelled locomotion.
Now, imagine an alien species with another percent difference in DNA in the same direction....
Their 3 year olds would probably do quantum mechanics with crayons. Tyson talks about this during the end of the video I posted up there. These aliens would be so incredibly advanced compared to us, like we are to the chimps. It's quite mindboggeling to think about, for me anyway.
So no, there is nothing, anywhere, stating that an alien species has to even be close to out level of intelligence.
I just wanna say that 1% isnt that small as you think, its huge difference, only becouse DNA is complex
so imagine you have for example 'Lego' constructor you have 2 defferent parts and 2 of each one so you can create like 10 of different structures
so if you have that 1% in this case other part so that makes 3 of different parts, so thats give you posibility to make more complex structures with more combinations
Thats easy example compare to DNA structure its self just to explane how huge difference between in human DNA and chimps
If there are 'Aliens' i think they 'were' if they were smarter then us in like 1000 years or more they would know that there is no purpose of life as everithing will have its end
Do you sometimes even thought about your life, what you did in it, alright your kids will remember you, your kids's kids will remember you but rest will forget you and your 'I' will be lost in deep hole of time and time is not even phisical material its just a word and dependings
If you want to know about your world around you, you must know your self...
Who are you? and why are you?
need to be a bit of psychologist to start think about philosophy
Thats only my opinion and shudnt provoke enyone els as all we have our own thoughts about everithing dependings on our life stile and expirience we had in our life
I believe she meant that 1% as huge difference :p
I believe she meant that 1% as huge difference :p
:p:
who's "she" ?
wwooooooooooooooooooopss :lol: :rofl:
ehm.... *clears his throat and checks downstairs*
Yup, still a dude, thank you very much :P
Hahaha. Yeah, I guess your voice got a little girly today... Must be that epic fail of yours. *grins* Happens, don't worry.
DefCon5
11-09-10, 02:44 AM
One of my Favorite themes :)
First of all, i want to say : we are Pure Stardust ...
Biological Life can only exist as a Form with: Carbon,hydrogen,oxygen .
Our Human life is a Great wonder and we have to realize that as best we can.
We dont know when the Universe is Born.. the Universe is eternal , and all Life,every Planet,Bigbangs, Stars,and Galaxies,Blackholes,Fogs,strings,theorys, and that stuff are an Example of what a Power and Beautyness is possible ,this toughts bring me to a Deep respect for the Life in every Form .
All what exists inside this "Universe" have a Period from Born-Living-Death,it means that anyway our own Galaxy is Born in some Magical ways ..but the Universe him self is Eternal ,and is Including All in one,everywhere in same time ,all Inclusive multidimensional peaceful beeings.
If i follow the theory of "Micro&Macro Cosmic law, i come to just one Simple explanation about the "BigBang" our Galaxie is Born in it and maybe a few Million Galaxies too, but the Universe is still eternal ,like a Star is Born and take his last breath after a few Million years of Shining.
About the Aliens thing.. its for Sure that other Lifeforms exists in different Biological,Mental and phhysical ways.. its clearly to see that they visited the Earth in many times in the Past and they will do it again and again, there are No Doubts about it!
Its a Magic Miracle why we are here , and i dont want to know how its going ,
i just realize that , and beeing in respect of the Power of that what has giving us the Chance to see it ,all what i really really know is... that i know absolutely nothing about!
The source himself is a Holy Secret and we discover it by beeing with it ॐ
blockade
11-09-10, 06:36 AM
after all the research ive done into the cosmos and the cosmology make up i have a very different understanding of how truly volatile our existence is and the earths for millions of reasons that we have the balance to make such things possible.. our moon is probable the biggest disaster that earth had but then was its saving grace for many or reasons mostly for our axis that it provides earth so we can grow food and have stable seasons and not flip flop radically causing ice ages in spots not facing the sun for 300.000 years at a time.. but then you could dig deep in to the biological aspects and thank the air pressure so that we have such things as solid metals and liquid water in stable states to sustain the lifestyles we lead.. and if it wasnt for the impact of Chicxulub on the yucatan peninsula in mexico then it wouldnt have killed the aggressive dinosaurs that were keeping the human species from developing into the dominant intellectuals we are today.. but i think the most interesting understood part of physics and science is gravity it self and how the planets and gas giants formed and why they all have the same shapes lol to be what they are today and why or how some things happen.. for something so simple it really is anything but thats why space travel is so dangerous and difficult because it isnt easy to propel yourself from earths gravity to get to space and carry the equipment that is needed for the stay.. but one of the most awesome sites is super novas and how the form to black holes.. and how dense the compact event horizons seem to be.. really there is so much that ppl dont know about when they look up they dont know how good they have it compared to other planets and or how volatile and dangerous things are for us in space and or even how many different ways the earth has been meet with and will be meet with catastrophes that could end our life as we know it.. the planet and micro organism's may live but we may not in the grand scheme of things.. but if it wasnt for those colossal catastrophes we would have no moon or we would have dinosaurs still keeping us under raps.. some ppl walk the world with out a care or knowledge of how we became or what may become of us and they just mearly want to live there life.. but after all we are mealry a composure Bactria and fluid and matter.. but if you were to look into us with a telescope you would find we are no different then the planets or stars the threaten our very existence :)
but one thing to add is the more research i seem to do the more i stop believing in god or religion and start to belive in chance and scientific possibilities with in those variables.. and the more i study the more i see that god and religion may have been some sort of stature stick to keep men from gorging themselves to death for items and or land .. so be weary of studying or researching alchemy science and physics and the cosmos because to some it may prove to you that i higher source or being exists but to many it prove otherwise.. i know i think i believe in science and chance and rather then god casting us here i think we owe our existence to volcanism for the acids that it produced and for the planets carbon and rich oxygen and nitrous atmosphere then any mythical biblical ideology all tho i am still open to a few subjects them may just as well prove it.. after all i dont just believe what my eyes show me but rather what all my senses do
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We dont know when the Universe is Born..
yes we have a good idea when the universe was formed becuace of the speed of light we can masure how long it took the light to get here and i think so far all we can see up to is 14 billion years or somethink around that so when we look far into the cosmos we are acually seing things millions of years old.. so we may be looking at planets that have life on them but we have yet for the light to get to us to show us there is life.. so we do have an idea when things may have started but we do have one more problem some galixies and planetary systems are moving faster away from us then the speed of light so we may never see some things.. its Einstein Special relativity theory that nothing can move faster then the speed of light but the expanding space it self.. but we do have a very good idea of how and when but we may have a few formulas wrong to give an exact theory
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If i follow the theory of "Micro&Macro Cosmic law, i come to just one Simple explanation about the "BigBang" our Galaxie is Born in it and maybe a few Million Galaxies too, but the Universe is still eternal ,like a Star is Born and take his last breath after a few Million years of Shining.
well thats the only explanation scientists seem to all agree on as of the forming of our cosmos and the only way to explain why some things have formed in groups and why things are traveling at such great speeds away from each other but everything seems to be on course other then a few colisions like the milky way and andromida :O we are headed right for each other and there are a tons in a crash course but over all its struture seems to be all moving together.. but i cant say i agree with your eternal theory as the human brain cant even comprehend the the size of space or its even the mysteries with in it.. let alone how big it is or the black matter that binds thge gravity masses to stay together from such expansion and there are beliefs that space will become so big that the dark matter may not be able to hold itself or keep it bonded together and it will implode on itself like it has seemed to have done before and just like a star struggling with gravity and fuel in will collapse and super nova and create a black hole.. well that could be what caused the big bang theory .. everything lives and dies i cant remember who's theory it is but its Decay theory means everything has a beginning and an end and so far the math can not be proved wrong with anything. but it has conflicted with other proven theories as well.. so i dont think its a matter of being wrong or right but rather the formulas are offa bit. what is eternal to you is nothing compared to the time of true existence..
I like your post, blockade, it was worth the read. :sunny:
blockade
12-09-10, 08:34 PM
I like your post, blockade, it was worth the read. :sunny:
thank you selena. it is rather a personal hobby of mine to look up and past what most ppl care or want to lol i thought my post was rather boring cuz i couldnt talk about any one thing but i tryed to touch basis with the basic ideoligy of space :) and yet left out a million things lol but who wants to ready a 20 page post :D:p
I wouldn't mind reading a 20 pages long post on this issue if it did state its sources and had a good content. It's a very interesting topic from a scientific point of view. :fly
blockade
12-09-10, 09:30 PM
I read a paper a while back about the possibility that two universes collided and caused the big bang. This paper articulated it a bit better then that, but that's the gist of it. I did a search to try and find it again, but to no avail. *ponders* I should have bookmarked it of course.
It sounded like a good idea in my mind that such an event could have taken place to spawn the big poof. *chuckles* And it's in the position to explain something about what went on before the big bang it-self.
If my memory serves me correct it also had great tie-ins to string theory, which only strengthens the idea for me.
One of the pluses of a possible explanation of pre-big-bang stuff is for all those who off the bat says; But what started the big bang? In my mind, something that we can't explain now doesn't necessarily dispute the fact that it could still be true or correct, which a lot of people state in both this case and others.
I believe science and our pursuit of knowledge will one day work out a proven theory of our universes dawn and what caused it.
I know that me saying something not understood can still be true and correct can be viewed as giving religious views on the creation of the universe a boost, but that's not the case. Religious doctrine has never explained anything about... anything actually, other than; God did it, which to me is just as valid as stating that aliens started everything.
While I'm talking about aliens, I might as well throw it out there that I do believe them to exist, even intelligent ones. A lot of people, and even some scientists, claim they can't exist due to the fact that they haven't visited us yet, which to me is a bogus statement.
First of, they might be here. There are a lot of ways to hide among a crowd so they could be gathering information by interacting with us already. I'm still holding a finger on the idea that President Bush was a social experiment by some aliens to see what we would tolerate :P *laughs*
Second, they might exist and are out there watching us now. Like the Federation of Star Trek, they might have rules about interfering with a less advanced species, or they might find us boring, or won't contact us for any number of reasons... They might even be watching us to find our weakest point to kill us of. Who knows...
And third, and the most likely one imho, is that they exist, but haven't gotten around to our part of the galaxy/universe yet. They might not be technologically advanced enough to travel great distances in space, or they are and just haven't reached here yet, and maybe never will.
We, as a species, have come close to annihilation a few times, but from us selves and from nature, so it stands to reason that other alien species might have existed and gone extinct too. Or might be starting their space-travel right now and something happens and they go extinct before we catch up to them.
My point is this; There are a few million reasons why we have not made first contact (publicly) with an alien species yet.
tl:dr
I believe universal-collision made the big bang and aliens exist :P
the possibility that two universes collided and caused the big bang
hmmm out of the billions of universes that exists i dont think that galaxies them selves would have had any great influence into the "big bang theory" when two galaxies meet it is considered cosmo or galaxy cannibalism there may be some jostling of planets and stars but no bang that would of created the cosmos the reason it is called cosmo or galaxy cannibalism is for a few facts the number one fact is that gravity really is the 1st rule of anything when it comes to the collision and mass being the 2nd and 3rd is velocity but i wont go to deep in my opinion lol but it seems to scientists that the galaxies on the crash course that seem to have more mass in gas and black holes tend to win the struggle with gravity and tend to feed the bigger galaxies black hole in turn creating quasars or colossal black holes that eat up gas and light and matter from the smaller Galaxy.. in fact the planetary system Andromeda is headed for our milky way and the result will be a big bang to our fabric of life but really to the great size and confines of space it wont even be a blip in the cosmos.. what you are referring to scientists actually think has to do with the fluctuating and instability of dark matter that binds the expansion of space and like an elastic band when it creates to much kinetic energy it naturally trys to balance itself by retracting itself into its original form or it breaks at its friction points.. so another words it is only still theory but it is believed that dark matters gravity seems to have gravity of its own and when it can no longer hold it self together it implodes like a star.. and when you have so much gravity and energy Einsteins E=mc2 comes into effect that 2 charged particles / nuclei get fussed together and collide with great force they create energy thus the big bang.. we have many theories on the "big bang" but its the only one 90% of scientists seem to all agree on making it the most widely studied theory but its still a very very unknown and we have yet to even understand why dark matter has gravitational influence in the fabric of space as we can not see it or understand it. we only know it is there cuz there is gravitational pull or effects when we see no mass so it is measured in mass and influence it has to planetary systems and or stars or gas around the un seen mass and how they form or orbit there stars and or how it is effecting in a negative way to there orbits around their stars. we can only simply try to understand the math at this point as it does not emit light for our telescopes or satalights to see.. another thing that i have to add is galaxies in great numbers are all headed in the same direction for the most part like they had an axis of point of start so really for 2 or more galaxies to collide to add to the big bang theory when there are billions of galaxies really isnt plausible to effect or to influence the cosmos or all the planetary systems that seem to have been effected from the colossal bang.. i hope i have been of some type of help in helping you understand what we curantly know and or what phisics and or science has proven to this point in our cosmos :)
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I wouldn't mind reading a 20 pages long post on this issue if it did state its sources and had a good content. It's a very interesting topic from a scientific point of view. :fly
omg my sources ummmmm really wiki and google and utube are really my better sources and in fact looking up is prolly one of my weaker cuz i wouldnt have understood what i saw with out explenation lol but for me to post links to what im talking or trying to explain would take forever lol my fav tv shows are the universe and known universe but i watch 100 of shows but those are the 2 best on utube that have given me the best understanding
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