View Full Version : Teamkilling
Spec_Operator
10-05-07, 06:30 PM
Then you shot me. Obviously I shot back...
But if i'm trying to safe a mate or civ from beeing shot by shooting the attacker, i'm a teamkiller :/
(^ this is my oppinion, no attack against the rules, i said - i wont shoot)
Then you shot me. Obviously I shot back...
I don't know if yo ushot on purpose or not but we don't allow teamkilling for whatever reason,even if it's too stop a civ killer or teamkiller if we caught you on the server shooting doing a Tk on purpose you get the same punishment.Whatever the reason there's no good reason to TK.Keep this words in your mind that you don't come later and say i didn't knew that.
Spec_Operator
10-05-07, 06:55 PM
(No attack, only discussion: )
And you really dont see a difference between defense and attack? The difference between helping people (or yourself) and killing a teammember for fun or something?
i cant understand that. You cant tell me, there is no difference... In real life laws the difference exists of course. So all people will think, the same is in a game too. (Only that the teamkill is not a murder and the punishment is not jail). I thought that too, thats there a difference, and i would never have the idea that there is no difference...
------I know the rule. I know that a rule is a rule and i have to accept it. And i will do.------
------I know the rule. I know that a rule is a rule and i have to accept it. And i will do.------
GG, thats all can be said really. Rules are rules and punishment is punishment :)
Spec_Operator
10-05-07, 07:12 PM
ya, but a discussion wont kill you^^
I just dont understand, WHY you just dont make the difference between attack and defense.
Well its like this:
A man kills his wife at home. He claims its defense but their is no evidence to suggest either way. It is his word against the authorities who suggest it could also have been an attack. How do they prove it?
Well unfortunetly spec my point is it is hard to tell the difference between defense & an attack especially in this situation. It is easier just to stick to the rules as it not only covers you but also us for making "unfair" decisons. There has to be a line somewhere and this is the easiest way. Team kill / injure = kick / ban no inbetweens :)
Spec_Operator
10-05-07, 07:32 PM
A man kills his wife at home. He claims its defense but their is no evidence to suggest either way. It is his word against the authorities who suggest it could also have been an attack. How do they prove it?
Well, the other player could confirm it for example. Or the player could use fraps, if he thinks he has to do something like that.
btw: The first thing i do, if i think a teamkill could happen is, to go between the players as a human shield for both*. Shooting would only be the last way for me. And i always have minimum one, normaly 2 LL weapons (LL shotty + Pepper or Taser + Pepper) with me, and would use that of course.
Well unfortunetly spec my point is it is hard to tell the difference between defense & an attack especially in this situation. It is easier just to stick to the rules as it not only covers you but also us for making "unfair" decisons. There has to be a line somewhere and this is the easiest way. Team kill = kick / ban no inbetweens
Yes, this i can understand (unless i think you know that i wouldnt teamkill for fun, its of course unfair to believe on player and not another).
But what would be if there is a fraps video of the situation? (example. one more time: i dont want to team-kill someone)
*---> for example the situation with Asakura and this "Mikeee(?)" I thought Mike(or whatever was his name) would kill Asa, so i stand between them, to stop Asakura, and to be a shield for her. Mike(?) was aiming at me with his taser first, then he switched to his MP5, was aiming one second or two, and then he gone away. This is the best way to manage situations like that i think, and i will try this way always first.
Yes, this i can understand (unless i think you know that i wouldnt teamkill for fun, its of course unfair to believe on player and not another).[/COLOR]
Well then we got another problem if we allow you to do that and something happens again he can tell it was selfdefence and we can't do anything about it and if someone has frapps then he can put he's proof here and we ban him strait away then but still there's still no reason to taser him or tk him,that's the main reason.
Well clear strong evidence would be needed to not only prove your inocence but also proving the other player deserved it & we all interpret things different so who knows which way it would go?
It sounds like a lot of work just so that a player who claims he is in the right can teamkill. Personally I would stick to the rules to avoid this and also so I didnt get kicked from the server avoiding any embarrassment!
However if you prefer the long way round then sure... just sounds like a waste of time for a teamkill that was in fact probably not needed ;)
Spec_Operator
10-05-07, 08:01 PM
However if you prefer the long way round then sure... just sounds like a waste of time for a teamkill that was in fact probably not needed
Because of that i'm trying to go between the players or the player and the civ first. Since i play SWAT4 i never had to shoot, I always could be a human shield, or i was too late.
Asakura
10-05-07, 08:15 PM
And by the way, about the teamkill-discussion that has been going on: I didn't read all the posts because I'm in a little bit of a hurry, but I think it's good to talk about this, although not in this thread. Maybe Wes could create a thread and move the posts there, for we are discussing about Killahshot here. :)
Spec_Operator
10-05-07, 08:37 PM
EDIT: And by the way, about the teamkill-discussion that has been going on: I didn't read all the posts because I'm in a little bit of a hurry, but I think it's good to talk about this, although not in this thread. Maybe Wes could create a thread and move the posts there, for we are discussing about Killahshot here.
Yes, would be nice.
Well i moved it but there's not much to talk about tking is forbidden for anyone.
Asakura
10-05-07, 11:13 PM
Well i moved it but there's not much to talk about tking is forbidden for anyone.
Yes I know that it's forbidden, but people should be allowed to discuss what they think about taking action because of bad players. To teamkill is forbidden, but to talk about teamkills is not.
Spec_Operator
10-05-07, 11:18 PM
Yes, indeed. I only want to talk, not to kill someone. And I think some people think the same about these situations, and should know the exactly rule.
Well im glad this thread were made; the report was becoming a discussion about the issue lol ;)
I AndyBoy I
11-05-07, 06:55 PM
I'm being quoted, I feel famous now.. :D
With the server system that SWAT 4 uses, I actually agree about the no TK rule. Like Wes said, there simply is no way to verify if you acted in defense, if it was an accident, or if you were just being a jerk.
This is where I like the system in place with BF2. For those unfamiliar with it, in the event that you were killed by a teammate, you can choose to 'forgive' or not. If someone kills a few times (2 times I believe?) without being forgiven, then he/she is kicked from the server. It allows some room for error.
A similar voting system would be a nice addon for SWAT anyway. If some annoying kiddie or a Rambo is playing, at least you might have the option to vote him out of the game when there is no admin around.
But that's not the point of this discussion.
Did I make a mistake about shooting the player who attacked me? Yes I did, I won't argue on that, rules are rules.
Like Wes said, there simply is no way to verify if you acted in defense, if it was an accident, or if you were just being a jerk.
*Coughs* Matt said :p
Nice post there Rayden, and I agree
A similar voting system would be a nice addon for SWAT anyway.
I believe TSS (the swat 4 expansion) has a voting system enabled where you can vote out players. You should try it :D
Matt
I AndyBoy I
11-05-07, 09:52 PM
*Coughs* Matt said :p
Err, right. My bad. :$
I believe TSS (the swat 4 expansion) has a voting system enabled where you can vote out players. You should try it :D
Well, I recently picked up the gold edition after losing my original SWAT 4 cd. (See, this is why digital purchase is good for people like me :D ), but I haven't got around to actually playing TSS yet. Wanted to get through the original campain again first.
It's on my 'to do' list though.
Yes, that system is in place, but some/most servers have disabled it because it has a possibility of being abused. You can set an "Auto Kick" in Swat4 after a few TKs the server will kick that TKer.
The voting system in TSS is not good at all and abused on any server (majority rules) I watched a popular server go up in flames cause there wasnt a regular admin on and a group of people would go in and anyone that tried to come on they voted to be kicked or even banned, and if there were 3 dead officers and 2 live ones still playing the 3 could just vote for new map and the other 2 had no say in it.
As for team killing, real simple, if you bring a lethal weapon YOU are responsible for it, accident or not. In BF2 I know there is forgiveness but you can respawn in BF2 in swat 4 coop you cant, even if its an accident you sometimes have to sit and wait for a long time. :mad:
Spec_Operator
13-05-07, 08:12 PM
Ya, but it's not about accidents... I mean, if i would teamkill someone in an accident, i would feel very bad. To get teamkilled in an accident is very bad, too. Because you think, damn, hes kicked, but it was not his fault.
But i mean teamkillers.
A player shot at another player, but he was able to take cover. Now the player who attacked him is going to give him the final shot. And you are standing next to them. Would you shoot the attacker?
Ya, but it's not about accidents... I mean, if i would teamkill someone in an accident, i would feel very bad. To get teamkilled in an accident is very bad, too. Because you think, damn, hes kicked, but it was not his fault.
But i mean teamkillers.
A player shot at another player, but he was able to take cover. Now the player who attacked him is going to give him the final shot. And you are standing next to them. Would you shoot the attacker?
No, I wouldn't. I would probably shield the person being attacked and then report the person who's being a tard. I would be a 100% in the clear, and cannot be falsely accused for anything later on. That goes for the usage of other tactical aids as well. Don't stoop to their level because you feel your actions are justified. In the gameworld, accusations and manipulated evidence can get you in a lot of trouble, at least if you are a member of a serious clan or hang around in communities where such actions have a zero tolerance level. *shrugs* It's just not worth it.
In SWAT3 we shot bad players on sight and removed them from the server after giving a simple warning message: "Xxx, you are compromising the team, please leave the server or you will be shot and removed."
On SWAT4 I have teamtazed once. Me and a clanmember were playing on a server, and one guy kept shooting everyone after spawning into the game and then playing by himself. So we teamtazed him until he left the server. Effective. I have not been a situation since that has required as extreme measures.
I agree that people acting like tards should be treated as such, BUT you have to adapt your behaviour to the enviroment your located.
:whs: *SHE* even if i didn't had admin power i wouldn't shoothim either especialy where it's not tolerated there.
I would think about it but, I would most likely teamtaze them if i didn't have admin and couldn't get an admin, IF they started shooting at me, and i gave them a verbal warning.
I have had a situation like that b4, I hate that because i want to play, and if someone ruins my playing time by TKing on purpose just for "Kicks" then they won't like me anymore. But i wouldn't shoot back, I don't think. :s
i wouldn't team taze, just tell them to stop and if they don't stay away from them :p
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