Frosty - My charges [Archive]

Frosty1989

03-03-10, 02:49 PM

DeKA

03-03-10, 03:42 PM

I would like to open an appeal regarding my current and past bans on the SOG servers. I would also like to request that my case is managed by an admin who is detached from the case itself i.e. not an admin which issued the ban or reported me. I wish an unbiased and fair trial.

it can be done like with any other appeal here but to be frank i dont think AdminBot will answer you here so i am (as i have banned you second time) dealing with your "appeal"

also you already was given a chance that your record and status was put on hold after you asked Pepper about it, unfortunately you wasted the chance and your status was put back to No Tolerance and later to Kick on Sight due to your attitude on servers

First things first - I am not entirely sure why i am banned as i cannot find the reasons on forum anywhere, if they are in a thread somewhere could i be directed to them? Thank you in advance.

I am aware a lot of my previous warnings have been due to ''swearing'' and i have never denied this. I however would like to point out that myself and many other players have been flagged by the adminbot for swearing when no swear words have been written. We both know there was a fault a while back where the adminbot randomly did these things and its been confirmed it is fixed. What i wish to know is have all the wrongly accused been cleared?

so if you are aware of your previous violations why are you not sure about your ban? you are banned for swearing and being disrespectful your entry is here 1050

you were caught by bot for swearing and words you were using are so typical that actually there is no chance that this is a mistake... what you have proved later with your attitude on our servers

The SOG forums are very rarely monitored

sry but what forums have in common with your ban?
i can assure you that our forums are under very strict control

and many children players simply run around butchering civilians, suspects and other team players on sight. This is very rarely dealt with and i have more than 40 players who can confirm this. Players have no choice but to tell the children off themselves and try desperately to make them follow the rules of engagement.

this is not a reason to break server rules, there is alway a way to contact admins here at forums, using Live Support or xfire also only SOG admins are allowed to enforce our rules on servers and it means that you have no rights to admin the server especially using swears and in being rude to other players

Now finally i would like to be presented with my charges as well as the evidence for these charges and would like a opportunity to give my side of the sequence of events.

Thankyou i hope all i have requested can be bought forward for the public to see.

Frosty

your charges are in your db entry 1050
also here is screen (http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff257/SOG_Nicoleise/swat4-20100226-145457.png)

if you think thats not enough i can assure you that we have chatlogs with your swears and misbehaving on our servers but im not gonna waste my time to search it and make your happy cause you do know exactly what you were doing on our servers and what are the charges so dont play innocent here as its pointless

also its not our deal to prove that we are right but its your deal to prove we are not right or apologize for your misbehaviors - what actually you should do

A brief reason for my swearing, notice i am using the words 'reason' and not 'excuse'.

well if you want to reason that you are allowed to swear and break any rules on our servers i dont think im gonna waste my breath - ban stays

have a nice day

:lock:

Matt

03-03-10, 07:15 PM

I would like to open an appeal regarding my current and past bans on the SOG servers. I would also like to request that my case is managed by an admin who is detached from the case itself i.e. not an admin which issued the ban or reported me. I wish an unbiased and fair trial.

This will not be possible as virtually every admin at this community has dealt with your case in some shape or form. In addition, we do not take such requests as our rules are in black & white to which admins also conform. As a result it would be pointless in referring cases where the evidence is already indeniable.

First things first - I am not entirely sure why i am banned as i cannot find the reasons on forum anywhere, if they are in a thread somewhere could i be directed to them? Thank you in advance.

I think this has been answered above. However it appears you already know what you have done.

I am aware a lot of my previous warnings have been due to ''swearing'' and i have never denied this. I however would like to point out that myself and many other players have been flagged by the adminbot for swearing when no swear words have been written. We both know there was a fault a while back where the adminbot randomly did these things and its been confirmed it is fixed. What i wish to know is have all the wrongly accused been cleared?

The adminbot has been fixed in this area when it was immediately flagged to our attention last year. The players that were added by the bot are reviewed anyhow and the minority at the time were removed as soon as they were added. We can confidently say that our database is accurate and has been as of December 09.

A brief reason for my swearing, notice i am using the words 'reason' and not 'excuse'. The SOG forums are very rarely monitored and many children players simply run around butchering civilians, suspects and other team players on sight. This is very rarely dealt with and i have more than 40 players who can confirm this. Players have no choice but to tell the children off themselves and try desperately to make them follow the rules of engagement.

These forums are always occupied and your statement is utter rubbish. You would know that if you had actually bothered to request support before this event happened. I also disagree with your comment over admin actions being rare as we have over 1000 players from SWAT4 alone that are in our database for some rule violation. As a result that is 1000+ bad gamers less in our servers with an adminbot that deals with players who cannot conform to standards expected. We are one of the very few clans that have such a tool and that alone makes your statement false.

Now finally i would like to be presented with my charges as well as the evidence for these charges and would like a opportunity to give my side of the sequence of events.

Thankyou i hope all i have requested can be bought forward for the public to see.

Frosty

The evidence has been provided. The public can also see this thread as you request and this case kinda speaks for itself in regards to your ban.

I have opened the thread again as you are right, I think you owe us an apology or reasons why you wish to be unbanned rather than expect sympathy.

Matt

Nicoleise

04-03-10, 07:49 PM

[...]I however would like to point out that myself and many other players have been flagged by the adminbot for swearing when no swear words have been written. We both know there was a fault a while back where the adminbot randomly did these things and its been confirmed it is fixed. What i wish to know is have all the wrongly accused been cleared?[...]

I think plenty has been said about the case in general, so I will not bother commenting on that.

I will however say that we obviously are and were aware of this issue, took steps to fix it as soon as it was brought to our attention, and are also aware which signs to look for when determining a false positive presented by the adminbot.

We have obviously reviewed your entry shortly after it was made, and obviously also before once again setting your status. Your entry bears no indications of errors - quite on the contrary it is impossible for the adminbot to mimic what it has reported, so we are sure it's truthfull.

=

I see you have also kept another of your habits, judging from your post; as you claim you have 40 players to support your claim, which I find interesting. In my opinion this is yet another vast overstatement on your behalf, like when you claimed the other day that you had been clearing a certain map with another player on our server for years, to which that player replied that he had played Swat for only a few months and didn't really know you at all from the looks of things.

I can only advice you, based on my unbiased opinion of your post and your presence on our server the other day, to reconsider your own worth, as you seem to think you are worth much more than other people, and is so much more knowledgable, etc. Infact it's a very arrogant and ignorant attitude to present oneself with, and it's always worth remembering "The fool thinks himself to be wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool."

It's not related to your appeal though, like I said I wont care to comment on that, it's simply an advice offered by me based on my personal impression of your person, no offense intended. However, it would definately be wise - in my opinion - to consider the above advice when you form an appeal, where you ask us for an unbiased and fair trial, insinuating that the opposite exists here, that you consider being slightly less biased your self.

Zephyr

09-03-10, 06:28 PM

Hello,

Please don't overlook my post, it's in favor of Frosty and I know that she is a good player.

Frosty explained to me that she had been banned on the count of swearing and being abusive towards the administration. She also said that she had only used certain profanities and that the majority listed in the database, were not used. No evidence of Frosty's swearing was provided in DeKa's post.

You claim that the adminbot caught Frosty swearing and apparantly that's enough proof. The adminbot has had previous issues, so is it possible that these profanities were logged at a time when these issues were occuring? Is it also possible that the adminbot has any other unseen glitches?

quite on the contrary it is impossible for the adminbot to mimic what it has reported, so we are sure it's truthful

Just "sure"? Being sure doesn't really make evidence. Being sure is simply like a high probability. So what you're actually saying is that, there is a high probablity that Frosty used the profanities logged in the database. In my eyes, that isn't enough to prove that Frosty broke the rules of not swearing.

Moving on to admin abuse, in the screenshot Frosty said "i dont expect much from SOG your all useless at admin duties ;)". Now let's step back for a moment, what does 'Abuse','Abusive' mean?

Definition of Abuse: to treat in a harmful, injurious, or offensive way: to abuse a horse; to abuse one's eyesight.

Now I can view this quote in a number of different ways but to call it abusive is a presumption. Her intention might of been to make a joke or just to tread on the admins toes a little but she wasn't what I would call... Harmful or Injurious. Offensive... It's possible but until you have heard what her intention was, it's hardly compelling proof of abuse towards the administration.

Thanks for your time.

I will let Frosty know that her appeal has been reopened.

Regards,
Zephyr

Nicoleise

09-03-10, 07:02 PM

Well hello!

Last time we spoke, you were pretty abusive in your manner of talking to me, but since you pretty much acuse me of providing untruthfull information, I'll be happy to inform you what you misunderstood.

Edit : I should explain that I quoted your original post (within the minute), and that any lack of similarity between your edited version above and my quoted version is not me falsifying evidence. I'm just saying that in case you start looking up falsifying...

See below

Hello,

Please don't overlook my post, it's in favor of Frosty and I know that she is a good player.

Frosty explained to me that she had been banned on the count of swearing and being abusive towards the administration. She also said that she had only used certain profanities and that the majority listed in the database, were not used. No evidence of Frosy's swearing was provided in DeKa's post.

The evidence DeKA posted is not related to *any* offenses in the database, as the database was not updated with any offenses after the original incidents.

The original offense was swearing, which the AdminBot (rightfully) added Frosty for. Since Frosty was applying for another clan, we attempted (for her own good) to handle matters discretely, which doesn't work with she then keeps violating our rules. That is why you will not find a report in her name. That being said, the language filter on the bot is evidence enough, and it is furthermore crosschecked with our chatlogs.

Thus, admin abuse wasn't related to the above screenshot, which I'm assuming is simply added to show the basic attitude, e.g. there are many ways to say we have bad admins, without generalizing all of us, and being rude. Nevertheless, I treated the remark as a complaint and enquired further, so it wasn't marked down as admin abuse. I'm sure you would find that - just as with you - I'm often more polite towards people, than (purely objectively speaking) I should be.

You claim that the adminbot caught Frosty swearing and apparantly that's enough proof. The adminbot has had previous issues, so is it possible that these profanities were logged at a time when these issues were occuring? Is it also possible that the adminbot has any other unseen glitches?

I "claim" that, yes. The (fixed) issue with the adminbot wasn't related to false detection, it would infact detect swears properly, however due to lag it would on rare occasions "repeat" the word in it's logs, triggering a much harder action than it should. However, this bug has been fixed, and it's not possible for the adminbot to repeat 4 *different* words, as it's not that inventive.

I'm fully aware how to diagnose and troubleshoot a system I assisted in developing, and when I "claim" that something is correct, I dont do it based of biased assumptions.

Just "sure"? Being sure doesn't really make evidence. Being sure is simply like a high probability. So what you're actually saying is that, there is a high probablity that Frosty used the profanities logged in the database. In my eyes, that isn't enough to prove that Frosty broke the rules of not swearing.
Since you're so fund of definitions, why don't you look up "sure" ?

sure (shr, shûr)
adj. sur·er, sur·est
1. Impossible to doubt or dispute; certain.
[...]
6.
a. Worthy of being trusted or depended on; reliable.
b. Free from or marked by freedom from doubt: sure of her friends.
[...]
Idioms:
for sure Informal
Certainly; unquestionably: We'll win for sure.
make sure
To establish something without doubt; make certain: Make sure he writes it down.
[...]

As for evidence, they are (still) in the database entry

With that out of the way ;
Moving on to admin abuse, in the screenshot Frosty said "i dont expect much from SOG your all useless at admin duties ;)". Now let's step back for a moment, what does 'Abuse','Abusive' mean?

Definition of Abuse: to treat in a harmful, injurious, or offensive way: to abuse a horse; to abuse one's eyesight.

Now I can see view this quote in a number of different ways but to call it abusive is a presumption. Her intention might of been to make a joke or just to tread on the admins toes a little but she wasn't what I would call... Harmful or Injurious. Offensive... It's possible but until you have heard what her intention was, it's hardly proof of abuse towards the administration.

Once more, as it has been established many times before, people need to think about what they put in writing, you cannot excuse anything based on "it may have been her intention to make a joke" or "there was a smiley at the end".

The excact issue is that Frosty has not been truthfull and has presented false allegations, *in addition* to her already excisting offenses, such as admin abuse and bad language. Your own definition points towards abuse being to treat others in an offensive way, and although I haven't asked, I will *assume* that our senior members find it offensive to be accused of acting otherwise than in accordance with our rules, not to mention than those of us caring about how we present ourselves, generally dislike to be presented by others as dishonest individuals where there's no reality in the claims :

She has accused our Council Member, Pepper, for breaking our own rules by claiming he deletes her posts, something he isn't authorized to do. She has also made several 'odd' statements, with the purpose to strengthen others view of her, e.g. "Me and X player has been clearing this map before you could walk" to which X player replies "I've only been playing for a few months and I dont know you". Things like that definately dont count towards honesty on my scale, and we generally don't appreciate deceitfull behavior around here.

When it's then directed towards our own management, and furthermore in an attempt to clear ones own name, then we draw the line in the sand, and that's where it ends.

Thanks for your time.

I will let Frosty know that her appeal has been reopened.

Regards,
Zephyr

You may also let her know it's closed, as this issue has already been decided on.

Matt

09-03-10, 09:26 PM

I would just like to add the simple fact that despite the definition overload and the dressing up of the whole issue, we act fairly and just.

As a result, and as we pay for our servers, we ultimately decide who we allow gaming on them at our own discretion. The adminbot has had hours, days, weeks even months of dedicated development and there is no question about it our rules were broken in this instance. I have already answered the claims about the adminbot reliability above, but clearly that was ignored. Therefore, I will not repeat myself again as it is pretty obvious my message is not getting through.

If you want to talk about evidence, then in this case lets go by "Guilty unless proven innocent". Its fairly obvious our arguement is stonger so the only way I am prepared to remove such ban is by being provided with evidence to suggest these offenses were not commited.

I wont be expecting such so as Nicoleise said, case closed.